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Gordon Glantz is the managing editor of the Times Herald and an award winning columnist.

Friday, August 21, 2009

Poison Arrow

Nice Job, FOX News! Rush Limbaugh! Deceive the people. Very patriotic -- not!

Read the following in disgust, but may a light bulb turn on above your head at least half the way through ...

FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

FACT CHECK: Poll finds health overhaul myths gaining traction, fabled 'death panels' included

  • On Wednesday August 19, 2009, 9:29 pm EDT
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The judgment is harsh in a new poll that finds Americans worried about the government taking over health insurance, cutting off treatment to the elderly and giving coverage to illegal immigrants. Harsh, but not based on facts.

President Barack Obama's lack of a detailed plan for overhauling health care is letting critics fill in the blanks in the public's mind. In reality, Washington is not working on "death panels" or nationalization of health care.

To be sure, presenting Congress and the country with the nuts and bolts of a revamped system of health insurance is no guarantee of success for a president -- just ask Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton. Their famous flop was demonized, too. After all, the devil does lurk in details.

It can also lurk in generalities, it seems.

Obama is promoting his changes in something of a vacuum, laying out principles, goals and broad avenues, some of which he's open to amending. As lawmakers sweat the nitty gritty, he's doing a lot of listening, and he's getting an earful.

A new NBC News poll suggests some of the myths and partial truths about the plans under consideration are taking hold.

Most respondents said the effort is likely to lead to a "government takeover of the health care system" and to public insurance for illegal immigrants. Half said it will probably result in taxpayers paying for abortions and nearly that many expected the government will end up with the power to decide when treatment should stop for old people.

A look at each of those points:

THE POLL: 45 percent said it's likely the government will decide when to stop care for the elderly; 50 percent said it's not likely.

THE FACTS: Nothing being debated in Washington would give the government such authority. Critics have twisted a provision in a House bill that would direct Medicare to pay for counseling sessions about end-of-life care, living wills, hospices and the like if a patient wants such consultations with a doctor. They have said, incorrectly, that the elderly would be required to have these sessions.

House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio said such counseling "may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia."

The bill would prohibit coverage of counseling that presents suicide or assisted suicide as an option.

Republican Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia, who has been a proponent of coverage for end-of-life counseling under Medicare, said such sessions are a voluntary benefit, strictly between doctor and patient, and it was "nuts" to think death panels are looming or euthanasia is part of the equation.

But as fellow conservatives stepped up criticism of the provision, he backed away from his defense of it.

THE POLL: 55 percent expect the overhaul will give coverage to illegal immigrants; 34 percent don't.

THE FACTS: The proposals being negotiated do not provide coverage for illegal immigrants.

THE POLL: 54 percent said the overhaul will lead to a government takeover of health care; 39 percent disagree.

THE FACTS: Obama is not proposing a single-payer system in which the government covers everyone, like in Canada or some European countries. He says that direction is not right for the U.S. The proposals being negotiated do not go there.

At issue is a proposed "exchange" or "marketplace" in which a new government plan would be one option for people who aren't covered at work or whose job coverage is too expensive. The exchange would offer some private plans as well as the public one, all of them required to offer certain basic benefits.

That's a long way from a government takeover. But when Obama tells people they can just continue with the plans they have now if they are happy with them, that can't be taken at face value, either. Tax provisions could end up making it cheaper for some employers to pay a fee to end their health coverage, nudging some patients into a public plan with different doctors and benefits. Over time, critics fear, the public plan could squeeze private insurers out of business because they would not be able to compete with the federal government.

It's unclear now whether Obama is committed to the public option. He described it recently as "just one sliver" of health reform, suggesting it was expendable if lawmakers could agree on another way to expand affordable coverage. Now the White House is emphasizing his strong support for it.

THE POLL: 50 percent expect taxpayer dollars will be used to pay for abortions; 37 percent don't.

THE FACTS: The House version of legislation would allow coverage for abortion in the public plan. But the procedure would be paid for with dollars from beneficiary premiums, not from federal funds. Likewise, private plans in the new insurance exchange could opt to cover abortion, but no federal subsidies would be used to pay for the procedure.

Opponents say the prohibition on federal money for the procedure is merely a bookkeeping trick and what matters is that Washington would allow abortion to be covered under government-subsidized insurance.

Obama has stated that the U.S. should continue its tradition of "not financing abortions as part of government-funded health care." Current laws prohibiting public financing of abortion would stay on the books.

Yet abortion guidelines are not yet clear for the government-supervised insurance exchange. There is strong sentiment in Congress on both sides of the issue.

The poll of 805 people was taken Aug. 15-17 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

26 Comments:

Anonymous Actor said...

I know, Gordon. You and yours are so, so smart and the rest of us with a different opinion just don't get it. Well get this, you liberal fool, Obama is being exposed for the fake he is and always was.

August 21, 2009 at 10:09 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Keep the Health Plan they now have or the Public Health Plan - there is one Big Problem Washington.

Employers now are offering $ instead of retirement benefits - Health Care Plans are gradually being dropped so they really only pay a sliver of the total - this would surely increase the number of patience into the public health plan.

One basic Health Care for ALL including Congress and the President - this would take care of our Retired and children's needs.

Don't go there? This is the First Step! There is nothing to fear but fear itself, if this is not included, the Constitution says we are all created equal and that means Health Care too.

So, In The Beginning...there is not Either/Or. We the People...everyone! That would be Public Health.

August 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know stan worships at faux news. Just like the rest of the repukelicraps.

August 21, 2009 at 5:37 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worship? No just listening to more than one view is why Fox News and NPR are great alternatives. Just say NO Way to most of CNN.

August 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Health Care that is offered to Congress and our President should be the only Health Care Plan considered. Anonymous you are right, this would take care of all Retired and Children, as it is the law under the Constitution - all men are created equal. This of course, only for citizens.

August 22, 2009 at 10:15 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only way to make it a level playing feild would to have every person, from birth to death covered by one plan. I don't approve of it, but it would be fair. How each person would receive the type of care needed would be very interesting - but it needs to be settled before we go any further. Yes, we all know this coverage would only cover American Citizens, so the non-citizens must go home and that is priority #1.

August 22, 2009 at 10:41 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes they must go home! Sounds great. Now how about Obama Auntie, where is she now? She is one that exted her time with out permission. First things first as on poster said. Imigration! The companies that hire and how they follow-thru,making sure they return to their home land.

August 22, 2009 at 3:00 PM 
Anonymous Elvis Lives said...

There has got to be a better way!

August 22, 2009 at 3:54 PM 
Anonymous Ian said...

America is SICK-O because we are WACK-O!

August 22, 2009 at 9:33 PM 
Anonymous Ian said...

America is SICK-O because we are WACK-O!

August 22, 2009 at 9:33 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you trying to tell me our whole system that I have been paying into is wrong? Don't think so. The problem is when a person does not plan ahead for the low spots in life. Eating a well balanced diet will help to keep a person in great shape both physically and mentally. Our bodies were not made to last for ever, so enjoy the time you have here on this earth.

August 23, 2009 at 3:10 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh for Pete's sake send them home Anonymous 8/22. They are not helping our country to move forward. The companies that hire these people are breaking the law. They of course know it but are willing to pay the fine. The solution is for any company willing to use people from another country, needs to go to the country and hire and return said people. Simple!
Now, that is taken care of - what about Health Care for all - one package for all people - Universal Health Care - no exceptions - is that the change you want?

August 24, 2009 at 11:24 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gordon, your "editor" Stan is like the cowardly lion before he gets some courage... I post, but he only allows what he wants, and ignores the truth... Wonder why??? Because he is trying to slant the truth, just like North Korea and Russia. Must be a communist...

===============

Well, here is my post again. Let's see if Stan the man can have the courage to post something he is against...

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Stan said...

To anonymous, Aug. 21 5:34 p.m. If you don't think the state Dems cutting checks for themselves a week before anyone else working for the state got paid isn't dirty politics, I feel for you. As far as Republicans and their affairs, at least when they get caught they own up to it, they don't perjury themselves in front Congress and the whole world.

August 22, 2009 7:40 AM

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Own up to them? Wasn't Vitter denying his adulterous affair with prostitutes? Newt didn't own up to his and neither did Hyde while they were sounding the charge against Clinton.

Didn't dubya, Cheney and the rest hide the facts of their illegal activities that are now being pushed into the glaring light by Tom Ridge and others?

Those republicans, including the for-mentioned Henry Hyde and Newt, and all the rest of the slimebags who cheated on their spouses, should have resigned, just like they were calling for President Clinton to resign. One even said that his affair wasn't illegal like Vitters. Apples and Oranges, I guess. You can feel for me if you want to, but the lies about the oil war and the costs of $10 billion a month for that Iraq war with no WMD's and dubya saying he was disappointed that none were found, when there wasn't any evidence of WMD's in the first place; and the expensive no-bid contracts for Halliburton; and also Blackwater to train the CIA and assassinate people when there is a ban that dates back to 1976 with President Ford, is enough to label G.W. Bush's regime as dirty as a sewage plant's intake before the cleaning starts. I don't feel for you as I see that you like wearing rose colored glasses just like Palin and her palinistas.

August 24, 2009 at 5:28 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Còmhradh said...

terib912: Your tin-foil hat is on backwards. Please adjust it for maximum reception.

Stan: Why do you even bother to hold comments for moderation?

August 28, 2009 10:42 AM

That's because he is scared of letting the truth come out. Stan, Stan, the censor man... aka, if you don't play my way, I'm taking my newspaper and going home. ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

August 28, 2009 at 1:14 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8/28 what you believe is the truth may not be how other posters see it. Many people view CNN and their affiliates, but never check out the other side of the news on the other channels. We have made it a habit of not staying with just one channel and that gives our family something to discuss when the day is over. Stan gives you enough space - don't waste it. Gordy does the same.

August 28, 2009 at 4:16 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me see who used/use Black Water (the Navy Seal Young Men are the owners) - Pres. Clinton? Pres. Bush and guess who now employees this company? You got that right! Under a new name in some instances.
If a company is excellent in their training and follow-through, why would any country not use them?
Is Holder going to go into why and how each project is carried out? Will he try to make it appear that it was the only way out when any action gets ugly - that would be Dem. way of getting out of a sticky mess.
Mr. Obama needs to explain to his men/women he is in charge - he did say his decision would be final - so why is it so many of His Apointees are going their way and not his way when it comes to how a department is run?

August 31, 2009 at 8:55 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't wait until all of Obama's men/women start to write their books on what they really felt like when working under Mr. Obama. Right now it looks like he lets them do what ever they wish. It will make good reading?? Like Ridge?...A Great writers?... Really!...So what I think is -their time spent in office should never have been. We really have quite a few blow-hards in both parties.

September 1, 2009 at 8:25 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

8/28 what you believe is the truth may not be how other posters see it. Many people view CNN and their affiliates, but never check out the other side of the news on the other channels. We have made it a habit of not staying with just one channel and that gives our family something to discuss when the day is over. Stan gives you enough space - don't waste it. Gordy does the same.

August 28, 2009 4:16 PM

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I don't just check out CNN, I read several newpapers daily, watch the news on TV starting as early as 3 a.m., continuing until I leave for work. Check out the web on breaks/lunch and watch the news in the evening. I look at both sides to evaluate the news. Also, it is good to know your "enemies" and obstructionists. You are wrong about Stan. He doesn't post everything. I've kept track of some of the things I've posted on his blog and they never appear. No bad words or anything like that, so it just goes to prove my point that Stan censors what he doesn't like. If he'd post the stuff and comment for or against, I could see that we might have a debate, but he just uses the paper to get his point across and posts the stuff that leans towards his side of the story. Which, seems to make him just like the other guys who don't like anyone being critical of Rush Limbaugh's endless spewing.

September 3, 2009 at 12:30 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Obama needs to explain to his men/women he is in charge - he did say his decision would be final - so why is it so many of His Apointees are going their way and not his way when it comes to how a department is run?

August 31, 2009 8:55 AM

=======

Like the "decider", dubya, did when he went ahead with his lies about WMD's? President Obama is looking for the best people to give him advice and to be able to stand on their own in doing their jobs according to the rule of law, not the "do as I say" leadership of the cardiac kid, who was really in charge until their party was kicked out.

September 3, 2009 at 12:34 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A Health Plan For All
I have a great health plan, but one big problem is how we get to the Doctors, Hospital and those special treatments that are usually in Philadelphia that require transportation. Yes, in some cases we will be able to walk to a bus stop - but most people that need to see a Doctor and require special treatment are unable to drive or walk to a bus, etc. A neighbor? Possibly! We here on this block are all about the same age and that is a way over the hill.
Who, do you suggest we call and what is the price we will pay. This I know will not be in the new plan.
A great deal of planning is needed and a cost study is needed - not a big bunch of promises.

September 3, 2009 at 3:04 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9/3 Anonymous
Looking for the "Best People" to fill the many slots that are available in our government?
All Presidents relied on people they thought would do the best job at the time. The fact is, that many jobs were filled with just the right people at the time of appointment, but times and events that happen make that person unqualified.
Now, in the present, who would be the decider? Our President says he will be. Really? Now exactly what was his experience? We know he is a good speaker from prepared text. Are you thinking as some of us - maybe he is not the qualified person. We shall see, so hold your comments about past Presidents because it just might come back and haunt you in a few months.
Name calling only shows the type of person you are - not the knowledge you have on any said subject. Keep it for the boys at the local - they appreciate this type of language over one too many brews.

September 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

9/3 Anonymous
Looking for the "Best People" to fill the many slots that are available in our government?
All Presidents relied on people they thought would do the best job at the time. The fact is, that many jobs were filled with just the right people at the time of appointment, but times and events that happen make that person unqualified.
Now, in the present, who would be the decider? Our President says he will be. Really? Now exactly what was his experience? We know he is a good speaker from prepared text. Are you thinking as some of us - maybe he is not the qualified person. We shall see, so hold your comments about past Presidents because it just might come back and haunt you in a few months.
Name calling only shows the type of person you are - not the knowledge you have on any said subject. Keep it for the boys at the local - they appreciate this type of language over one too many brews.

September 3, 2009 3:24 PM
----------------------------

Name calling? When you are talking about "keep it for the boys at the local... too many brews"? You are the hypocrite here. dubya called himself the "decider" and went on to drag the country down into the sewer with his $10 billion a month oil war, with no-bid contracts benefiting Haliburton, the cardiac kid's old company, and ignored 2005 warnings about the subprime mortgage crisis.

I don't need to worry about words coming back to haunt me. dubya's antics and the rest of the right wing loons are still haunting the greedy old party's base. Moose pucky palin's lies about death squads supposedly being in the Obama plan just prove my point. Then Grassley backtracked and tried to blame palin for his own lies about the health plan:

[Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) has backtracked on comments that the government "would decide when to pull the plug on Grandma," saying yesterday on Face the Nation, "It won't do that." ]

So, keep showing your ignorance and I'll keep laughing at your 3 ring circus of greedy old party clowns.

September 16, 2009 at 9:34 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sept. 16th I could not have written any script better than yours to explain the baseless and unthoughtout posts. See you at the local if you are who we agree you are.

September 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And the Beat Goes On! Blame everyone when logic is not present.

September 26, 2009 at 4:17 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

August 24 Poster, You call an Editor a Coward, but of course you know he is not, but his posters have you thinking and from where I am sitting and sharing your post with two other people of voting age, we all agree we would not print your Post - it is just words showing a person not using common sense. Gordy, you are lucky to have an Editor like Husky. He keeps life interesting here in Montgomery County.

September 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No detailed plan on health care and our Congress and The Decider will be making these decisions..?? I am going to have procedure done and just making an appointment with the Hospital that will house me was quite interesting... Question, is your Doctor associated with this hospital? But of course... Do you have insurance and have you checked to make sure it will cover this procedure? Ok, now we are on a role - ... We will schedule you in for December 3rd at (satalite building used for some procedures) at 8:00 AM.?? Interesting, now we need to travel over a half hour, when the hospital it self is 10 min. from my home. So, when thinking of changing Health Care - it truly could not get worse. The present system being used does not consider the patient and their needs.

October 4, 2009 at 10:35 AM 

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